#954 האם הרבי מלובביץ׳ הוא המשיח? | אליהו גליל VS הרב בן ציון גגולה

בפרק זה של הפודקאסט "על המשמעות" עו"ד תמיר דורטל מארח את אליהו גליל - מחבר הספר "המשיח שלא מת", ואת הרב בן ציון גגולה - שליח חב"ד בחיפה, לדיבייט על פולמוס המשיחיות בחסידות חב"ד, דמותו של הרבי מלובביץ', והשבר התיאולוגי שלאחר פטירתו בג׳ בתמוז.
האם הרבי מלובביץ' אכן הצהיר על עצמו כנביא וכמשיח, או שמא חסידיו הם אלו שהשליכו עליו את התקוות הללו? במהלך הדיון הסוער, אנו צוללים אל נבכי האמונה החב"דית. הרב בן ציון גגולה מסביר כיצד ההלכה עצמה, ובעיקר פסיקות הרמב"ם, מחייבות את החסידים להאמין בנבואותיו של הרבי, גם כאשר המציאות הפיזית והקבר המוחשי נראים כסותרים זאת לחלוטין. מנגד, אליהו גליל מציב מראה נוקבת מול תפיסה זו, טוען כי מדובר בבריחה מן הרציונליות אל עולם האגדה, ומציג כיצד כל הקריטריונים ההלכתיים המובהקים מוכיחים שהרבי איננו ולא יכול להיות המשיח. 
השיחה מציפה שאלות פתוחות ונוקבות: היכן עובר הגבול בין אמונה תמימה לבין הכחשת המציאות? האם הציונות ומדינת ישראל נתפסות בעיני חב"ד כגאולה או כהסתרת פנים? וכיצד קורה שדור שלם של צעירים, שמעולם לא פגשו את הרבי, מוכנים לצאת לקרב על תפיסת משיחיותו? 
בפרק זה, המאזינים ייחשפו לקרביים של אחד הפולמוסים הדתיים והחברתיים הסוערים ביותר בעולם היהודי כיום. תשמעו טיעונים הלכתיים, היסטוריים ופילוסופיים, ותלמדו כיצד תנועה שורשית ומשפיעה מתמודדת עם משבר מנהיגותי עמוק. הפרק מספק הצצה נדירה לדרך שבה טקסטים עתיקים מפורשים מחדש כדי להצדיק מציאות מורכבת. האם מדובר באמונה טהורה ונשגבת או בעיוורון תיאולוגי מסוכן? לחצו פליי, האזינו לטיעונים משני הצדדים, ושפטו בעצמכם.

00:00:00 פתיחה והצגת המשתתפים בדיון
00:01:47 הפולמוס האם הרבי הכריז על משיחיותו
00:10:25 כללי הרמב"ם לזיהוי משיח מול המציאות
00:21:55 שאלת הנבואה של הרבי וההשלכות ההלכתיות
00:26:40 יום ג׳ בתמוז והסברים לחולי ולפטירה
00:35:10 יחסה התיאולוגי של חב"ד למדינת ישראל
00:43:35 תפיסת חב"ד כשפיץ של היהדות ושלילת דעות
00:52:48 פאצ׳ים של ׳משיח׳ והשפעתם על חיילי צה"ל
01:01:00 משפט הספרים והמתיחות הדיפלומטית מול רוסיה
01:10:40 קשריהם של ראשי המדינה והצבא עם הרבי
01:14:50 תופעת הפתיחה באיגרות קודש וזניחת הרציונל
01:22:40 נכונות לקבלת פסיקה הלכתית מחוץ לחב"ד
01:29:40 משבר התאולוגיה של הדור השביעי והאדמו"ר השמיני (פרימיום)
01:32:00 מחשבות סיכום של המשתתפים ונעילת הפרק (פרימיום)

#פודקאסט #על_המשמעות

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Alan Khavarim, the regular financial regal of the Financial Hodge, the Mm, it's a Shara, and the Mr. Knesset, and the people who are not able to get the Marah activism, Kham, and the people who are not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Okay. So my chronicle statement, Shuamaraj. The Vershini the Bateman Agdera, Shavilogmaim Svolochabadik. As a very good thing, and I should have Shuhana Rush Gamma Shukana Ruh, audio take his NFD, and the Ramba, the Mosha, Shim Sheemal Pia Alhorthodox.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Arav, Shilhabad, Arab Shnurson, no Lam Lamar Furash, and Yamashik, or in Enberho, Heshuk Shabats, Lanashim Shirakdu, Shawle Fanav, Shirim Shikim. Uh Mazr Mazim Avim Kmoregal Shel Peel, Kshuamar, Litzuhainian, Techum Yad Mamash, Shimit Kavan Lemenach, Mendel Shnurs and Shazmo, Vikshu Dibir al Bet Mashiach, Gimatriashva, Dibel Abay Chelo. Ulama Shunavi, Unatan, Shua Mashiach, Mitohimuna, Kanirash will be met him in Shua Mashiach, can I make a minchavi, Aval, Ullahita, Tadaharon, Ulokhatov, she's a very strong. Gam Taleb David, Gam Tah Ogebatura, K David, Gam Tahio Hamoto Hashem, Aval Gamzah Amigdash. Al Af Kul Ritonatov, Lobanai Amigdash, Vegam, Shitatam, Shagidus, Shwam Chiv, Bonaben, Gidash be commodities, the Lomigdash, and Shem Korbanat, the Loberat Israel, Besuffar, Ullah Mad Lobot Nairi Shansh Behit Mashiach, Vada Mashiach, Unishar, Beramash, Masha Dorothanashim Shall Holyot Mishim.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

I have a scheme of the Rav Bahabad.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Look, you merge Arabi Nib, Vivia, Chaim Nitzhim, but Latzmo, Latimo Colado, Lator, Latzmo, for us. Can I?

SPEAKER_03 25:37

As Kolonko, and if you shekolo, aim metsi utm Elmalihosalam Israel, Velishbota Luchot Azhemusim Tegelazav, Kemitsiutashumet, Rashio Mershim, Otomet, Zasivmazav, Azotomerechi Mata Betheshek Begash, Mish Mit Amet, Mitakamanash Bukimutov, Mitsuhmarakh, Azozumircham Mushrabelo, Avalamatalomerze Moshabeno Aman Votem Mitkaimu, Az Gaiman Khum Vemshu Mershem Afukhima Mitsu, Achumamin Mashu Aman, Vilol Masha Khuimba, Seferamada. Asalepo, I Marawic Aman Votem, Karu, Lif Neshua Marsh, and If you have a member, I'm not going to be able to get the same.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Lama, you can't get the people who are not going to be able to do that. Well, Bagisha is so dead I am technically like a big bagisha, but I do. Lamani Tikha Shavla Lech Vishfu and Mani Loto and the Lolo Tegamashonavale that Tibes Yatali Rotted the Batehabad, Lodam Gambes, Lomotisim Sfarim Shim Lossabat. Lotilla Hashava Sifria Vetrapaz with himself. But Fisa Chabadita, Chabadnik Shiruati Motamashia, Malarit, the eyed Hashem as it said, Chabadniki Mutzazia Mala, the eighth abad. Vlachenkamoto at Moshmini, Lachen Khashadochela Istelkut, the Istelkut can look at Khashajah, Etzem Zashabishul Chabad, Lov Chabad, Shil Mishist, Gimil Tamuz, Ukiru Ayom Shayan by Storm, I am Laka Klum, Lokaroshum Dava, Mamakarayo. Rabbi, Arabi Lonira Lineav, Lomet, Haswechalila, Ulom Sikliota Nisiado, UF Sikliota Beheskat Mashiach, Ulf Sikliote, Shakrail Kalamitz, Rosh Binaisrael, Litfizatan. Tassim Radar Sorikaka, Adateom and Jumavapo, the Rekam, the Kolashlaya, Khabadnik, Kavopo Arab, Aval, Zeshunift, Fizit Kovok, Guvok, Kavopo, the Hassarmashmouth, Mikina Rukhani, Kivancha, Bemutams, and Gdolima Shabih, Lyat Velo Bat, Nisharo Tovar, Mikhata Mm Shikhl, Ig, Msikhliot, Shimani Gaeth Hasidut, Vela Henga Miguel, Arabi, Uh, Israel, Zarajet, Mumshikliot, Americans, Gamshimbayomazi, Aval Zelo Yom, Shibok, Hasidut, Shit, Unifta, Aval. Mashemula, Yach Lekubinam, the Lost Y Vashelah, Niftar or Lifta, Sheila Tactit, Almani Deberimanashim, and the Bible. Uhhuh. Mira o tam Khutmim Veloch Tom. Tavari Khadikhad Kimat, Chabadnik, Chabadnik, Shalich Po, Shalioch.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

Okay, M Korim Lemashiach. Another me if it's the Pet Mashiach.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

I have a combinary but simist. Ah, okay, Lamfti.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Law and Bonagabar. The low pitch, the low bikri.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

Lost time is a gilamalo. Kizwe met Chabandiki Mishikistim Khimzel Halitzal, Alohamim, Aval, Aval A Khalim, A Khalim, Shem Saim's the Lomit Kavim Nahon, Mish fit to the Val Michael.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

No, Lost Tamput of Dr. Ketter Bio.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

Avalama Kabandikov Sam Ksef Avalash Hosek me apacha dim shokin pissav, Alf petchim, Velasim de Galim, Velim Corn Lamo says, but Fisashello, V Jose.

SPEAKER_03 54:14

As Batem Mirabi Khai Velo Kavu metai la Balakhab, mid Busisim, Al Kha Min Aram Balhab Sivada, Sulatura, Al Kazan, Shitsehle Amin La Navy, La Kharsi Tame. So me, Sumer Chimash image Efech Masha Khouim by nine, when a Vader Sina, Khutrimla Amin, Shabenu Hai, La Mucha Houim by Name by Name Slano Shumet. As it Ligabetana, Ligabetana, Shel Nasiado Ligabishim. Nasiador Bikitweh Sidut the Benadam, Shiloh Kaduaritz, Cola Galaxiot, Cola Aolama, a call over the co call ashpa ochil khad, kadwarit, so alomishisti mumrim and rabi na siado, melechamashia, wow, na siado, mashukaz,ukze n tokaz and ahmad, law, shtakure to do mazina siado, uh gaba amira lomishit shlache gabanehabad alomishado, stakure, buttavim shall hasidut chabad mazina siado, the amiram more tith decha ramulwa rich call mashekore bay kum or verko, the bashib Gamayom, gamayom, a gimilbeta mus. Shnea, kitsa, tof. Ah, tita.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

She myself, baby, uko bibbi shall be bisted. Kumobibi shall be biste, uh rabi which will a call, Slicha, Lel Holt.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

Machine cele called Mazin Asiado, because it's a good. And I'm not a man, I'm a Hayal Samita Petelmash, and I'm not sure. Asutomach, Shahul Khamim, the Khanikta Nashim Shiloh Alemuna, Alemuna, Sitka Deh, Baimuna, Vanachut Shim Lavoy my Muna Bayadu, Mashiach, Bayaduti Muna Merkazit, V Hashuva, Viza Matarash Husamim, Pichim Shell Mashiach al Khalim, Af and Lokoshe, Ishalsh Piresh Zomer Shakelvach Mash Lokoshev, Shemusim Tech She.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

So, Lazar.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

I've got Novashumashum stabilim uh shiach mammas, gamzello, mashiach. Avalashama e kettle, show memutak chabad.

SPEAKER_00 58:37

Iem, the hashtag the ken or lo tagivu. Kenoma. Ken yeah down with the cashula chabad, load down was the cashul chabad.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Okay. Arabi I'm collum rishon, Arabic al Chabad, I'm column rush on Bashav, Dollarim, Le Bay Lanashim Shavu Fanav, we have dollarim I lebabate, and Michael. Shalom. Dollar Shal Chabad, ekibalto?

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Mabito. Can it?

SPEAKER_01 59:32

Stone low, you're git to the Tun Kali canes. Fet Munashell? Lomofia Tumunatoshell Afikadini Siahabad. I must sell a shushino batabito batunashella youth. Munachat Aukhaha Hhibu Alezh Arab, Shilhabad, Loya Melech, Veloya Par Samhabat, Sakakimadola. Loyalo elek hooky, Vera Melech, Bagdara, Ubenadam, Shemutsi Mateba. I have Shabad Loya Mashiach.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

Yeah T'sim Khamush and Chabad.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:32

Kokhma Binava Dad, we comeze a chabadniki, but's ma'am. Emma Khailim.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Gampo, at him Khamushim?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:41

Hamashim Nesheka values.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Specifically.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

As Bitoma callover transformatia, as Gavaraneshek, the Rashadovot Chabat Kodesh, Vatank, the tank mitzivot, Vahalim, Zekhale David, Mishimekir te tnutanoir, noir, tivotashem, you had a resolute. Okay, resolute aktashella. Mamash bere resuluta, semitzvait, and she committee, awale shame as it is. That's format, she becole pam of low mistakes, as a chabad, or as a do to say, and the lomb. Uh, it's lam the move, a ramba, and litzava, as to tank him, ma tank himselo, tank mitzvote, tender in the Ramkolve, Simsama, Kurum Shapeti Lim, Mid Palim. Uh Tank, Liberal Litzava, or Diberal Sava. Uh David Melech, Zalaneged and Avamad. Why David Melch? The Megia Mizashabi Reshita, Habad Smoke and Commission, it's a mash. So it's a little bit shallow. But he was a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a batiligani, Udala, and the other one. Okay. Burra, Vitura, Techadav, Yosif, Odre Mazim, Achebashlam Siam, Wamar, Gwagamanu letzach Takaftorim. Khamiv, Honzah Khamiv, Khamibra Shanahnu, Majanish Letzahtah Takaftohim, Ekatamashiach, Pamel Kaftohim a tech, it would say Khaber Shafta Megiazamishov, Tamtach, Shimavrik, Bamizdar.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:36

She marab Ose Matbea Zo Tri Moto. She Lakasfarim is Chabad Elav. Azhpat Asfarim, the Mia Shahim Label Mishpachah, Al Hasidut. So, Russia, Putin Bala Rav Lazar, she's a very good Russia Shugam Chabadnik Vamarlo, at a chabad? As bona says Museon Ud Russia, she has farim, we're seeing the Sfarim, the Museum UD Belusia, we're not sort of brief. Because it's for him, put in a sort of gil, she's the sort of brief the white Russia Kolipshia Musaim Accolum Pitzim and Kolomikov. The Vashini Legabes for him, she is a Khazalas and Bitafin Aleph, Mishakh, Shem David Narchon, Minofagalil.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:41

Dafka Dugmo Chevetta Kiraya, Lezecha Arabiumelah, and Biduka Dugmoche Lama Ulomeh. But I didn't have to see the breed, Arabia Michel, I would say, Melech. She said, Chabadnik, to vote, I am malasot, a kelmi selah lefishlochabenil modes, or aim na koncha ni tiah shaveshlik, m sheloyot, shiduchin, pam di barti mkam chabadniki vemsipul, shik shalem dilamba shiduchem shoot kodesh, as a chabadnik anilagi damutzah, val Bevadaya chhabadnikam shikista mutsa, if ne ptihabi god kodesh, we shlofekes, shikole dai, veniatz da ka, veamirat, yhye donenu moreno virabenu, ulay yasingam gertel, vi mumyadehuleglamikve, vehadahu beakrai, ytof ta' sela, veakrai, slof kerhili godkodesh, if tahoto beakrai, yasim sham, we toh emuna, shishamita chuvalashela shelo, shelfemza khhalala chela shelha mavit, shelashala shpial shlumbait, al parnasa, pial filo inye refois, pikohnefish. We tele beafilou beze voche mezushu remez, we fizes. Bze, chabad, canire, beikar uh meshikit, zonahat, chabadit adhab, she navedat, she has intellectual shelakidud, she chabadikim lumdim gmara, kim, be ma marikha siud, kelinhmadim, bitomuzorakta sehel sida, uhami, vussa to lay al varim shama rabi of rationalit la khalutin, shailato, shamatridao toh shav, be gimel tamuz taf shhin pay vav, ktuvahab, bikre, biduki patahl, mikre me Arabia. Ashav Kamovan with my coach, efumutara so to be shourav it if to go codish be shelch pikoh nefish. Okay, the mal pikoh nefish. And a shimitraglims be a rabi and heavy hula hula matzanukaza deva, gamizeshumata. Shanaknukim tesaken. Shall irrationali, a chabad, beikara meshikit, gamla meshit and that is uh the gum like shovel the mashumadim Luchoshwimalov, Shana Chabadnik time of Dor Shalem Shel Chabadniki, and a shim shimbatzmam can be karov sabim, Laura Ume Ulam Tarav, Shel Chabad, B N Shlushim Vishtime Shana.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:15

Dor Shalem such a name odd me odma od Lama Pin Lord.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:23

Gamas, L Fim Zayha, ILF, ILF, ILF, Aya Elef, Khamesh Lef.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:33

But Ms Paranashim, the Bart in Ma Professor Serdafergula, Bad Logadlo, uh Demographer, Bahir, Lord.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:38

So the the Varno Safe, Anachno, Anachuwe, Mr. Kleem, Ayon Venakhim Esparchim Shalhabada, Bamuz Elefim, Kameshelfim. Ah, Yud Kakzat Mulay No Shut, Ephesikudash time, or Ephesikud Efeshtime, Yudim Mul Goim, the image Christianity, the Islam, ateism, the Shintu, the Buddhaism, the Judaism, Achilemata, ashem Ayamat, Shem Kalectanim, as a total yudim, the Chuvai, Sh Aymet, the Lola Pika Mesparimes, Avramavino, Kashekola Ulamaya Shekhir, the law, Shashab Glasha Banikim, Lachumut Bama Yudi, as the Kanireblaze, Baruch Arabi Ulamash Ella, the Benoitam Veliver, Virabana Israel, Skimashakan, Imwim Ninachon, Zoteri, as Lush Vuel Medukhavan, I mean Zenhon, Soda Kabanikim, Khaimbetochenov, Mushpaim, as you tana, this is a Mushmood, Kim Arabia Mashiach, as a Kadosh Bahut Sebolotanovish, as the Azen is a fida ticola, and the other thing is that the people who are not in the world.